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Thread: The doctor is out: Peter Capaldi leaving Doctor Who at end of 2017

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    Supreme Member kenny8's Avatar Black-private
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    It's going to be interesting to see how they handle it. Personally, I'm a traditionalist but I can see they probably need to move with the times. Having said that, the show had a female producer when the show started way back in 1963 which was unheard of back then and Joanna Lumley played a female regeneration in the Red Nose special which was written by Steven Moffat. Also, Star Trek's had woman captains and in this age of Wonder Woman & Supergirl doing so well I guess it's time to take the plunge
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by kenny8 Click here to enlarge
    It's going to be interesting to see how they handle it. Personally, I'm a traditionalist but I can see they probably need to move with the times. Having said that, the show had a female producer when the show started way back in 1963 which was unheard of back then and Joanna Lumley played a female regeneration in the Red Nose special which was written by Steven Moffat. Also, Star Trek's had woman captains and in this age of Wonder Woman & Supergirl doing so well I guess it's time to take the plunge
    All true. One thing, though, in Star Trek they were new characters, and I think that part of the problem is this tendancy that they now have to "reimagine" characters... turning Thor into a woman being one example... changing the gender of characters in the reboot of Battlestar Galactica is another. "Hijacking" existing characters seems a cheap way of balancing inequality; I guess original thinking is a bit too difficult these days. Click here to enlarge
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    I don't follow the show and I only know a little based on hearing/reading things over the decades.
    The regeneration factor: Is there anything in the process that says he can't regenerate into female? Or shouldn't, beyond fan opinions?
    Or is this a matter of the frustration of fictional characters not behaving the way you want them to...
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by stvnsprngr Click here to enlarge
    I don't follow the show and I only know a little based on hearing/reading things over the decades.
    The regeneration factor: Is there anything in the process that says he can't regenerate into female? Or shouldn't, beyond fan opinions?
    Or is this a matter of the frustration of fictional characters not behaving the way you want them to...
    Nothing has ever been established in the past to say that it can't happen... that I know about, at least. They paved the way throughout Steven Moffat's time in charge, i.e., the Master became Missy, but that was a completely rubbish character that couldn't have really been used to test public opinion. I think it mostly comes down to the fact that for (almost) 55 years the Doctor has been a man, and for many, the fact that male characters or role models are suddenly becoming females is a little too much to take. Where are all of the good “new” role models for woman? The Doctor is one of the last, best, fictional "heroes" to fall. The change even made the primetime news here in New Zealand! lol I do hope it attracts new viewers, doesn't alienate the people who've been watching for decades, and isn't just an experiment in political correctness… judging by some of the comments I’ve seen from the celebrity bandwagon jumpers, you’d think that Doctor Who was personally holding back woman’s rights, and now the world is a better and brighter place for the change… you have to be in awe at the power of The Doctor. lol
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    Look out for the next Star Trek reboot, starring Jennifer Lawrence as the iconic Captain Jane T. Kirk... Click here to enlarge
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    Or Charlize Theron as Jane Bond.
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by chiops Click here to enlarge
    Or Charlize Theron as Jane Bond.
    Actually, it appears she's opted for 'Jane Wick'.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by amkire Click here to enlarge
    All true. One thing, though, in Star Trek they were new characters, and I think that part of the problem is this tendancy that they now have to "reimagine" characters... turning Thor into a woman being one example... changing the gender of characters in the reboot of Battlestar Galactica is another. "Hijacking" existing characters seems a cheap way of balancing inequality; I guess original thinking is a bit too difficult these days. Click here to enlarge
    Except in Doctor Who gender changes via regeneration are now canon, as noted elsewhere here. Galactica was a remake, changing the sexes of characters in a remake is original thinking
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    Near the beginning of Robot the 4th Doctor looks into a mirror, seeing his new face for the first time. "That's the thing about regeneration," he says. "You never know what you're going to get." That suggests that regeneration is random. So it seems reasonable to accept that the new faces, new bodies, would not always come from the same group.
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by radioguy46 Click here to enlarge
    Near the beginning of Robot the 4th Doctor looks into a mirror, seeing his new face for the first time. "That's the thing about regeneration," he says. "You never know what you're going to get." That suggests that regeneration is random. So it seems reasonable to accept that the new faces, new bodies, would not always come from the same group.
    Sorry, I'm so very sorry, but that was Peter Davison who said "You never know what you're going to get" in his very first story Castrovalva. It was Tom Baker who suggested back when he was leaving the show in 1981 that the next Doctor should be played by a woman.
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    Yeah, you're right. Tom Baker said something like "...Still, I think the nose is an improvement."

    But, the point I was trying to make still stands.
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by radioguy46 Click here to enlarge
    Near the beginning of Robot the 4th Doctor looks into a mirror, seeing his new face for the first time. "That's the thing about regeneration," he says. "You never know what you're going to get." That suggests that regeneration is random. So it seems reasonable to accept that the new faces, new bodies, would not always come from the same group.
    Ah yes, but Romana tried on several bodies before settling for Princess Strella from "Androids of Tara". That would suggest that if the regeneration isn't caused by something traumatic then they do have some choice in what they're going to look like.

    Hmmm, not sure that saying "ok, Starbuck is now a woman" really constitutes original thinking... creating a completely new character that could rival Starbuck would... but I never watched the remake, so I may be wrong. lol Yes, it's canon now in Doctor Who, but that was down to the fact that Mr Moffat made it canon; of course, Chris Chibnall has said that the 13th Doctor - 14th if we exclude the War Doctor, which also seems to be canon Click here to enlarge - was always going to be a woman, so, maybe he knew that and was making sure that we all knew happened within Gallifrey's Time Lord Society... we may never know! lol

    So, whatever happened to The Valeyard?
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    You're right about Romana. I'd forgotten about that. Writers on the original show often wrote things that contradicted something that had been said in another episode. They wrote what was convenient for the script they were creating, never dreaming that viewers would take it all so seriously. That's one reason why, in my opinion, the original series was more entertaining than the new series. I don't mean any offense to anyone and I realize that I am in the minority on this, but I wince whenever I encounter the word "canon." Doctor Who used to be a science fiction/adventure aimed primarily at children but entertaining enough to also be enjoyed by the parents. Good writing for children tends to be intelligent. Now we have a story where The Master gets an erection while dancing with Missy, his own female alter-ego. People think of that as being "adult" but the writing is juvenile in the worst sense of the word.

    But I digress...
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by radioguy46 Click here to enlarge
    Yeah, you're right. Tom Baker said something like "...Still, I think the nose is an improvement."
    A dig at Jon Pertwee and his big nose.
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by radioguy46 Click here to enlarge
    I don't mean any offense to anyone and I realize that I am in the minority on this, but I wince whenever I encounter the word "canon."
    Fans used to get upset whenever Peter Cushing's Dr. Who was brought up. They would say he wasn't canon or whatever but he was the first Doctor for me. I remember watching Daleks – Invasion Earth: 2150 A.D. quite well on TV when I was a kid. I prefer the old Who myself but not because it's better but because it reminds me of what television was like when I was a kid. The new show IMHO is better written, acted and produced but the old show had something magical about it that new show lacks.
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by chiops Click here to enlarge
    Or Charlize Theron as Jane Bond.
    Actually, you're not the only one with that idea:


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    Hemsworth recently told W magazine that Theron would be perfect for the role “because she scares the hell out of me.”

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by deadmanstar Click here to enlarge
    Fans used to get upset whenever Peter Cushing's Dr. Who was brought up. They would say he wasn't canon or whatever but he was the first Doctor for me. I remember watching Daleks – Invasion Earth: 2150 A.D. quite well on TV when I was a kid. I prefer the old Who myself but not because it's better but because it reminds me of what television was like when I was a kid. The new show IMHO is better written, acted and produced but the old show had something magical about it that new show lacks.
    Interesting post, deadman. I had to think about it for a few minutes before responding.

    First of all, I too, enjoy those two movies with Peter Cushing.

    As to the part I put in bold - I don't think the new series is better written. Yes, there are individual episodes that are better than some individual episodes of the original series but, on the whole, I think the stories in the old series usually accomplished what they set out to do more often than stories in the new series. A big part of that is simply because writers had more time to develop the societies in which the stories were set and to develop the supporting characters. In my opinion, that added time often resulted in more satisfying endings.

    I also don't share the opinion that the acting is better. It is different because the actors who appeared in the original series came from the theater as opposed to coming from movies. It's a different style of acting. My opinion here is certainly biased because I have a love of theater. In my younger days I did practically every job there is to do in staging plays, from acting and directing to doing lighting and making scenery. Couldn't get enough of it. Also, the actors in the old series were doing something completely different from what is being done in the modern series. Since the scripts in the modern series tend to be so self-conscious the actors are forced into making different choices. Thus, we have Doctor #9 who is looking for redemption, Doctor #10 who is looking for love, Doctor #11 who doesn't quite know what he's looking for. We have Doctor #12 asking "Am I a good man?". There's an awful lot of navel-gazing in the modern series. When The Doctor is described as "The Oncoming Storm" (a line that could well have caused the actor tasked with its delivery to dissolve into uncontrollable laughter) or River Song says "...armies would turn and run at the mention of your name," we have a different character.

    I would agree about the production in the sense that it does reflect the advances in the technology of film and tv production. I tend to be pretty ambivalent about that, though. Special effects neither persuade nor dissuade me.

    Obviously, all of this is only my own personal opinion.
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by stvnsprngr Click here to enlarge
    Actually, you're not the only one with that idea:


    EXCLUSIVE: Charlize Theron Reacts to Chris Hemsworth Saying She Should Play 007: 'Thanks, Dude!'
    Yes, I saw Hemsworth say that on morning TV the day I commented here.

    Still, regarding the new Doctor, as far as I'm concerned Dr. Who peaked with the Pertwee/Baker eras. After that I stopped watching.
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by chiops Click here to enlarge
    Still, regarding the new Doctor, as far as I'm concerned Dr. Who peaked with the Pertwee/Baker eras. After that I stopped watching.
    The show certainly was great at that point. Bob Holmes, Philip Hinchcliffe and Tom Baker were all great but there were some great moments in the 1980s. The Peter Davison swansong The Caves of Androzani (written by Bob Holmes) was voted best story by readers of Doctor Who magazine a few years ago and Davison has some great stories during his time. Kinda, Earthshock and Resurrection of the Daleks were all pretty good. Colin Baker and Sylvester McCoy I think were let down by some poor stories and John Nathan-Turner had that point had burnt out as producer of the show.
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by radioguy46 Click here to enlarge
    Interesting post, deadman. I had to think about it for a few minutes before responding.

    First of all, I too, enjoy those two movies with Peter Cushing.

    As to the part I put in bold - I don't think the new series is better written. Yes, there are individual episodes that are better than some individual episodes of the original series but, on the whole, I think the stories in the old series usually accomplished what they set out to do more often than stories in the new series. A big part of that is simply because writers had more time to develop the societies in which the stories were set and to develop the supporting characters. In my opinion, that added time often resulted in more satisfying endings.

    I also don't share the opinion that the acting is better. It is different because the actors who appeared in the original series came from the theater as opposed to coming from movies. It's a different style of acting. My opinion here is certainly biased because I have a love of theater. In my younger days I did practically every job there is to do in staging plays, from acting and directing to doing lighting and making scenery. Couldn't get enough of it. Also, the actors in the old series were doing something completely different from what is being done in the modern series. Since the scripts in the modern series tend to be so self-conscious the actors are forced into making different choices. Thus, we have Doctor #9 who is looking for redemption, Doctor #10 who is looking for love, Doctor #11 who doesn't quite know what he's looking for. We have Doctor #12 asking "Am I a good man?". There's an awful lot of navel-gazing in the modern series. When The Doctor is described as "The Oncoming Storm" (a line that could well have caused the actor tasked with its delivery to dissolve into uncontrollable laughter) or River Song says "...armies would turn and run at the mention of your name," we have a different character.

    I would agree about the production in the sense that it does reflect the advances in the technology of film and tv production. I tend to be pretty ambivalent about that, though. Special effects neither persuade nor dissuade me.

    Obviously, all of this is only my own personal opinion.
    The best era of the show was of course the Bob Holmes, Philip Hinchcliffe and Tom Baker years. But when John Nathan-Turner took over the show it really had a slow painful death. The memory doesn't cheat JNT, the 1970s were the best followed closely by the 1960s.
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by amkire Click here to enlarge
    Hmmm, not sure that saying "ok, Starbuck is now a woman" really constitutes original thinking... creating a completely new character that could rival Starbuck would... but I never watched the remake, so I may be wrong. lol
    If they kept the characters the same sex would've been predictable but by changing the sex of a couple of established characters gave them new avenues to explore.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by amkire Click here to enlarge
    Yes, it's canon now in Doctor Who, but that was down to the fact that Mr Moffat made it canon; of course, Chris Chibnall has said that the 13th Doctor - 14th if we exclude the War Doctor, which also seems to be canon Click here to enlarge - was always going to be a woman, so, maybe he knew that and was making sure that we all knew happened within Gallifrey's Time Lord Society... we may never know!
    Yeah, that seems to be the case, but showrunners and the writers have always created the "canon" but keep in mind the idea goes back to when Tom Baker left the show.

    There was a great joke in the last episode where Bill asked the Doctor if you can change your sex why are you called Time "Lords"?

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by amkire Click here to enlarge
    So, whatever happened to The Valeyard?
    He turned up in a Big Finish recently, played by the same actor
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by amkire Click here to enlarge
    turning Thor into a woman being one example...
    Well, in Stargate SG1, they turned Thor into a little alien pipsqueak & I don't remember anybody being upset...
    Don't blame me, I voted for Gary Johnson...
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    Any reason we can't have the Vicar of Dibley playing the Doctor ?

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    I kind of hope that during the doctor's regeneration into a woman, that a Vincent Price the Fly situation happens where a fly enters the regeneration beam and the Doctor has a body of a woman but the head of a fly. That would put some new excitement into the show.
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by dcdete Click here to enlarge
    I kind of hope that during the doctor's regeneration into a woman, that a Vincent Price the Fly situation happens where a fly enters the regeneration beam and the Doctor has a body of a woman but the head of a fly. That would put some new excitement into the show.
    Please don't give them any more [bad] ideas. Click here to enlarge
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